Thanks for the article, I've also read, "not-so-good" things about this site.

EX: http://marketplace.sitepoint.com/listings/77366

I too was looking for a place to Buy Facebook Fans, and came across http://Fans4FB.com. I gave them a try, and they actually gave me MORE fans then what I ordered. And their also a little different, in the sense that they offer, not only INVITES, but also GUARANTEED Facebook Fans. Give them a try!
http://Fans4FB.com

Hello John,In a short time we've had quite a few messages to each other. In one of those I mention that I try not to just go out and scream fire! Well, I used other words, but I mean that I try not to be ignorant in my actions. As I wrote you last night, I had 2 people besides myself that had not received the promised service by Viralee and Dominic Holland. To try and get more information, I asked the people who have made the Viralee account admin of their fan page if they've had results. You mentioned that you were not familiar with Viralee's method, and I admitted that I do not know it either. I do know however that they ask you to make their account admin of your fanpage, and when the number of fans ordered is reached, they'll remove themself.Both people that I asked last night both replied this morning that they got the same results, which is no results, no replies, and no money back. They've both looked up my blog, and have gone on to tweet about it.Again, 5 people may not be statistically significant, but it is more significant than 3. It reminds me of that parabole-- the man walking down the beach after the tide washed up thousands of starfish onto the sand. He sees this little girl picking up one starfish at a time, and throwing it back into the ocean. He tells her that it's futile, as she'll never save all these starfish, thus won't make a difference. She picks up another, throws him back in the water, and says "I just made a difference for this one. And this one... and this one..." -- you get the point. It feels like a scam to us individually one at a time.

I would love to know what limited legal perspective you would be referring to here. Were you a law clerk or something? Or even a paralegal?

Let me know when you find those good reviews or testimonials please. Or you can continue to ignore my requests and make my case even stronger.

Sure thing. Anyone that takes the time to write an intelligent comment on here will get replied in kind (even if their comment bashes my photography, writing skills, business knowledge, and character). I am very pleased to have communicated well enough to have you state that I was wronged in this circumstance.Your legal knowledge is likely more voluminous than mine. I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I certainly like to think that I act intelligently before I act (unless of course, I"m doing something like playing Bull Poker... in which case, stupidity must clearly dominate at times), and I'd hate to think that I was acting on such an ignorant level as the folks in this article: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/75593...... other scam warning I have on my site is for a company called DVI Express. That company's site is no longer around. My spider-sense (tm) was correct about that one, and for a long time I was getting backlinks to my warning. This is the nature of the internet... people like to voice their opinion, and others follow suit. Sometimes intelligently, sometimes as sheep. You've agreed that I have been wronged here. I suspect the other individuals that have been wronged are also telling the truth. No one has been "nasty and calling names" (Scammer is debateable, based on circumstance). Everyone expressed their experience (some more vocally than others). If there is a pattern of more than 1 person not receiving service n or replies, and these persons have had their moneys taken intenationally, then that is truth. From my understanding of libel, it is the spreading of untruths that is a crime. I posted my experience which is truth, and my readers echoed my truth.How did you happen upon this blog (yes, it is a blog, not a collection of articles)?I take it that you are an attorney, or are involved in that profession?Regards, Ori.

I've been searching for reviews too. It's been hard to find them... good or bad. So far, the bad outbumber the good. The Twitter accounts seem pretty spammy, many of the followers being accounts with only 1 tweet, 1 follower, etc... some are legit though. Even the article on readwriteweb.com states that @viralee seems like a spam bot.

I like that analogy. You guys both have good points. Of course, I am biased, but if Viralee can produce case studies that are legit, then I will do a writeup that states that while I did not get service, there are many who have (I'm not counting "We miss Michael Jackson" "Pizza" "hugs" and "Kisses" as legit- those are items that go viral in the same way that Farmville does. People think it's cute, and will pass it on.) I'll even let them stay anonymous.I'd have to think about it, but I believe a case study that is acceptable is: When they signed up/ How many fans did they receive/ In how much time, and of course, that I can verify these transactions.The fish and chips store would be able to provide testimonials, or clients to talk to. Dominic states that they've been around since 2008, but the whois information says 10/09. As I said in a previous reply, I aplaud that you defend the seemingly attacked, but as in your analogy, you have not had the fish and chips yet. I have.Sincerely,Ori.

Thanks for the reply Ori. I see your point of view, and I agree that in this circumstance you have been wronged. There is still one problem however. While you perhaps have the right to feel scammed (although you did get fully refunded), the little fan base that suckles from your teat spamming it everywhere that Viralee is a scam is really nothing under than libel, from my limited legal perspective, and for this to be labelled an actual scam, or criminal act, would require evidence of intent to defraud, and of systemic evidence of such fraud occurring.Regards,John.

Hey John,Well, I didn't lie, but in my previous reply I was being sarcastic about my business acumen by implying I had none. I absolutely meant the part about that you've given me something for me to ponder about perception. That said, I am working on a few projects, so my replies will be slightly more brief. It is not to be rude, just to meet deadlines. You are correct sir. It does not explicitly say that they can get fans to everyone even if they are toxic waste. By taking my money though, he does promise a return... such is business. In http://www.allfacebook.com/2009/12/new-service-..... Dominic states that they can get the fans in 5 days (my test was with 1,000 fans). After that period, I sent an e-mail to see why the order was not fulfilled. That is the one e-mail that he replied to, stating that the engine has been started, and I'll see the fans very soon. At the end of 30 days (which is the period that any sized order can be fulfilled by -- according to previously mentioned article), I contacted Paypal with a dispute. It wasn't till a few days later that I elevated the dispute, that Paypal froze the funds. The statement which you are confused about means that there was no 1,000 fan fluctuation. The number of fans stayed at the usual level. Facebook provides fan-page owners analytics. These graphs show you the number of fans that have come and gone. Many of them interact with me more on twitter. I was able to see that nowhere near 1,000 fans came and went in that period. The oscilation of the fanbase was the same as before Mr. Holland got my money. I too do not know how Viralee works, as they do not disclose it anywhere. But I do keep track of my online presence. I do enjoy intelectual conversation, thus I will of course give some details on my point of view, as you requested. However, I want to remind you that I said I'd be brisk -- and apparently, I'm doing a crappy job of that, as to address everything you wrote. Guess I'll be brisk here.My experience alone would leave me to feel that *I* had been scammed. I would not post warnings if that alone were the case though. Matt Abron had to threaten to sue to get his funds back. Another reader further down in the page has waited 2 months, and has not received anything. My truth is my experience. I applaud that you take a stance. I always tell people to have an opinion, and not worry about whom it offends. I also like to help the underdog when I can. In this case I feel that I and the others who did not get serviced by Dominic after he received our funds are the underdogs. The only evidence that I have is my paypal receipts, the emails (and Facebook messages) sent and received, and the notes I've received with the others I've mentioned. We may be few, but there's a saying "There's no such thing as A cockroach..." This means that if you see one, there's many others in the walls. How many people do you think need to testify that they did not receive anything before a scammer claim is made? Regards,Ori

Ok... I have seen something very similar to your analogy and it's called yelp. Also, if everyone knows it's legit then they would ignore the one guy saying it wasn't. Also, can you show me where there are a bunch of positive reviews? I have searched google for them and can't find any. Also, they have a whopping total of 33 followers on Twitter. (That's pathetic for such a 'great service') And now he opened a new Twitter account called @BuyFans with a whooping 1 fan that's not even a real person. And he even has a facebook fan page with 2800 fans, but not a single one has left him a testimonial. Please show me these mysterious positive reviews!

Again, good day, Mr. Wenzel,Imagine you live near a fish and chip store. You haven't ever gotten anything there, nor do you know anything about the owners. I suppose if you watched the store you'd see customers coming in and out, and you've never really heard a complaint about them before.Suddenly, a man appears from no where, claiming he got terrible service and a terrible product from that store. And he is telling every person who cares to listen how terrible this fish and chip shop is, and how they are scamming their customers.You have a few choices about what to do here; and each of them defines you as a person. You and I simply think differently.I hope you understand this analogy.Sincerely,John.

Can you tell me why you so adamantly defend a service that you have admittedly not used?

Thankyou for your kind words.I have not scoured the Viralee websites as intently as you it seems, as I cannot find reference to your statement: "Mr. Holland claims that they can get anyone the fans.... even if they are untalented, unsuccessful scum of the Earth."I briefly searched, but as I'm not particularly under the belief it exists, I did not spend too much time on it.In addition, I'm a little confused with this statement:" If the Viralee system worked, then the fans would at least become fans for a minute.... before realizing their heinous mistake, and scurrying off into unfandom. But nay, I did not receive even those micro-second fans."I am just wondering how you know that he didn't actually get any fans for you. At the point at which you made a paypal dispute, were you aware if there were any fans for you? Maybe it is possible that he had perhaps 850 or some other arbitrary but rather high number - I cannot say. I'm not sure how the Viralee system works - can you check how many fans you have through the process? I would appreciate your input on this.Finally, thankyou for your time and response. Also, in your reply if you wish to continue, could you please explain how the Viralee system is a scam (taking care to not use your singular example, but on a systemic level) with evidence if possible, and also why what you are doing is not libel.Regards,John

Your writing is wonderful. I enjoyed the read. Mr. Holland claims that they can get anyone the fans.... even if they are untalented, unsuccessful scum of the Earth. There was definitely no small print that said that human excrement with a blog and a camera will NOT receive the fans. So, my complete lack of any talent of business sense should have nothing to do with it. If the Viralee system worked, then the fans would at least become fans for a minute.... before realizing their heinous mistake, and scurrying off into unfandom. But nay, I did not receive even those micro-second fans. Through the wonder of technology and the internet, we now have the ability to outsource the traits we do not have. So, while I admittedly do not have patience, there are others who do, and if you scroll down in the comments, there's a gentleman who's still waiting at 2 months. As an educated individual, you must know that people do business with people that they know, like, and trust. Part of my grievance with Viralee is the lack of response (and some of the others seem to have the same issue). If my emails had been replied to, I probably would've kept waiting. When an e-mail tells me to e-mail for a status update, and then no reply is made to my status update request... or any email... then I yank the funds at 30 days.Sincerely,Ori

Perhaps, Ori, there was a problem with your request which made it impossible for Mr. Holland to follow through. I assume you are aware of one fairly basic marketing facet - it's harder to sell a product which simply isn't any good.After flicking through your page, and more specifically your photos, I can see why someone would have a problem becoming a fan of your page - you simply lack much of the talent a professional photographer should have. While your goals may only entail the photography of family gatherings (which your skills are suited for), I am going to make the assumption that it is highly unlikely that 1000 people will become fans of your hideous, kitsch photography that can be achieved with a 6 yr old, any decent SLR camera, and a macro lens.In addition, from reading your poorly worded, attack-oriented blog post (I assume it's a blog post, because it's not well written enough to be an article), it comes across that you did not actually wait the 30 days that Mr. Holland requested to be able to fulfill your needs. Patience is a virtue, and like photographic ability, another thing that you seem to lack. Perhaps if you had waited, you might have seen a different result.Sincerely,John

took a couple of days and their was no targeting that I can see. This was about 2 weeks ago I believe. Am I doing it again no. This was just an experiment.

Wow, thanks for stepping forth! I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you're legit... I'm not biased, I'm just pointing out my experiences.So they are mostly useless people, though,they do state that they target the exact demographic you want. Congrats though on getting your fans. What time frame did it take, and when was this by the way (if you don't mind me asking)?

I tried the service out for kicks and got the 1,000 users. They were from all over mostly malaysia and I figured as much. I have also tried offer walls and I get same results, bunch of users but no real active users adding value to the service. I guess I should just feel lucky I got users.

I think my comments on numerous blogs that mention his comment are getting peoples' attention (as you just stopped in here and left this comment). I noticed that he has now added a guarantee on his site... which was not there before. Viralee also raised their rates. While I have yet to find someone who's gotten any results from their organization (that includes themself-- with a handful of fans/friends), I just got an offer from them to perform their service at their cost once I remove ALL public comments, and make a public withdrawl statement. I don't think I would trust them with my account again...Thanks for stepping up and sharing! Spread the word.

same thing; 1,000 fans order for $99 in early december as a test for this sort of service. got the same email you got about a week later.A little under two months later (we're in late Jan now) and no reply to multiple emails from the guy. im testing the waters to see how these services work but apparently the guy is a total scammer.

As my friend Sheila pointed out -- and this is where I'm a total fool for not having checked-- these guys have hardly any fans or followers of their own. That's like a skinny chef, or an obese personal trainer. Their accounts that they promote as having showed a million or whatever fans... those were hugs, pizza, michael jackson... kind of easy to get fans on things like that.

I was testing a tool. In a comment on here, Ricardo has a good point: These days, there CAN be new technologies that someone creates that for $100 will get you some great result-- such as targeted fans. I can think of many uses for an inflated fanbase, though, I prefer relationships (hence why you saw me at your Monster Tweetup in Vegas, after you saw me in Washington DC)... but even if they are artificial numbers-- it's social proof, it can provide leverage in negotiations..... Though, you're certainly right.... it's a cheap lesson (compared to my $20,000 lesson from 1997). Guess I'd like to believe that people are inherently good. I did get my money back... which is better than me just getting my money back, because now Paypal has yet another person claiming fraud, and will eventually shut him down.

I've fallen victim to some scams "back in the day" in fact... I may have to do a blog post about that. Some of the stuff was pretty dramatic. The thing that blows my mind is how a person can try to run a scam through paypal... they DO chargebacks after all. Oh well... screw 'em. After enough time, paypal will close their account.There's a company called DVIXpress that I did a scam warning on- I get a lot of traffic from people looking them up. That's a scam warning that really worked well. They use a service that you have to transfer money to... i.e. you'll never see it again.

I definitely agree with you. That traffic still needs to be converted to relationships, but there are always new technologies... hence what I said in many of the other comments-- it was worth testing. I consider it a good experience, as I got my money back, and I get to save other people from this dude's scam (and he gave me plenty to write about. I went and commented on all the blogs that mention them, and I'm ranked on the 1st page for their company name, with this scam-warning article).

I don't agree with some of the comments. In the Internet you never know when a new business comes out and can actually bring this kind of results for $100. You get a thousand people if probably a good start for any page. Also I'm pretty sure more people got scammed with this, for $100 it worth the risk. Anyway, you got your money, and you discovered that this is a scam and now more people will be saved from this scam thanks to your bad experience.

I thought your language was perfect. If someone is the type of prick that's looking to misrepresent their following, and market to people that aren't their demographic (like my buddy Matt Bacak says "Don't try to sell hamburgers to vegetarians!"), I would expect a stern talking to. And you were not being a prick either, it was intelligently written. An apology is not needed at all-- though, further proving MY first impression of you.... as someone who is well spoken and intelligent, you did apologize. Thanks, it's appreciated. I appreciate that you spoke your mind... if everyone writes "Ori, you're the greatest!" and no one dislikes what I'm saying, then I clearly do not have a strong enough opinion. I think your old decision to not pay for artificial followers. While people find the concept repugnant, they don't realize that many of their loyalties have been purchased. ElizabethPW is very wise, not just in this comment (and not just 'cause she just came to Austin to go on a lifechanging adventure with me :) ), which is why her readers love her. But yes, this comment is right.. it's the multi-touch relationship building that converts people from analytics to names and eventually handshakes (and for me also couches). I'd like to point out that now you and I have already had a few interactions :) I would appreciate if you kept vocal in your comments. I prefer to know what people really think, not the polite polished thing because some others think that I'm not the worst person in the world.

Thanks Janet. I'm fine with being berated... if that's how they choose to interpret my actions. I started commenting from the most recent first, so I explain my intentions. It's a bit of investigative reporting :) Thanks for your comment!

Hey Pedro. Thanks for the great comment (I may have to borrow the My .02. thing). I was anticipating this question from the start, or I would not have written the blog post. This is why many scams work, because the victim didn't want to call the cops, or tell their spouse that they _______ (hired a hooker, lost the family savings because that colonel from Nigeria has entrusted them with.... ). I'm not afraid to admit that I gave this guy money. I invite you to read my blog, tweets, and engage my readers and other commenters, and of course, me. I think you'll find out that I'm very much in integrity, and I believe in transparency (and I like to believe that I'm entertaining). I study marketing, and offer various services for my clients, some are in marketing and social media. I teach people how to have more time in their day... so, for example, there is a tool called "HummingBird" which is a tool that searches for twitter people that say certain keywords, and automatically follows them. I'm not using it, but I've tested it, and certain clients I've recommended it for. It finds people that are talking about what their business is about, and can then engage them. That is a marketing tool that helps them find people that may benefit from their product or service. I would not recommend a tool I've not tried. The same applies here, I was testing something. On my internet radio show (http://Couchsurfingori.com/radio) I try to teach a little bit of marketing. In Episode 3, I mention a bit about how to do keywords in the title of a video, and how to use a tool (TubeMogul) to send the videos to multiple sites at once, to save hours. If this Viralee would've been useful, I would probably have found interesting uses, and taught that to some people. Right now, a tool like that could be used to raise awareness about the disasters and relief efforts in Haiti. Again, thanks for the well written comment. I invite you to learn more, so you can form a more complete opinion than this very 1st one.Ori

I completely agree Warren. You know I build my relationships one at a time. I make sure to come over and shake your hand, and ask about you and your kid whenever I see you - which is in multiple states now. I engage with many people on Twitter and Facebook, I wish people happy birthdays, and I love calling people on the phone and just chatting... I teach my clients to engage as well. But if I see a tool, I will test it. Paypal gave me my money back, I've lost nothing. If I got an extra 1,000 fans on FB or not, I don't really care. So, now this dude gave me something to blog about. I like receiving traffic -- it's measured in hits and clicks, it helps me measure what people respond to, and where (The Mashable crowd loves my comments), but it's the results that I enjoy. The conversations, the couch invitations, the shared laughter. And when I run into them in person, as I do you, I know that my blogging/tweeting IS serving a purpose... or I wouldn't've met this rare individual.

As likely being one of the aforementioned with both feet planted in the "berating" camp...let me further qualify my previous post based on the feedback received. The language I used was unnecessarily strong and not meant to be personal - though you wouldn't know from reading it. (so FAIL on my part)I clearly made up my mind long ago that I would never "pay" for artificial followers. That mindset and opinion was, in retrospect, likely a bit narrow, and biased by the fact that "most" who both provide and subscribe to these services are scammers and spammers. I recognize however, that from a "marketing perspective", there is a legitimate space and need for a service that helps to accelerate one's accumulation of traffic. Like ElizabetPW said so well, converting that "one touch" however, to traffic is much more difficult than the "relationship" which is based on "multi touch" and more organic in nature..I apologize for coming across as being so judgmental - after blocking & reporting as spam a number of "nuisances" on Twitter, I was not in the best frame of mind to absorb and digest your post... :-)Best Regards - Pedro

I agree Janet, great of Ori to let everyone know about this scam!And, you may not know that Scott & I (and I'm sure many of the other commenters too) are friends w/ Ori ... so if you don't know that back story, hard to understand the context of the comments as coming from a place of knowing Ori's awesomeness!! :)

Rather than berate you as some commenters are inclined to do, I appreciate that you candidly shared your experience with this company because you may save a lot of other people from being ripped off.

Perhaps the reason you fell for the scam is you assumption that traffic is a result. That word, "traffic" is used as a goal by most naive businesses and preyed upon by every scam that comes along. What you want is visitors (real humans behind the eyeballs who chose to be there). Most of us won't sell our attention for money. Let's do the math on what you were trying to buy. $99 for 1000 new "fans" equates to a dime per person. How much time and attention can you buy for 10 cents? Anyone selling this would need to attract attention, move enough of them to go to your page and then accept that the majority would not click to become a 'fan." It's safe to assume that he's have to buy 10,000 visitors from an even larger pool of 'traffic" to some other page. The numbers don't add up. I've paid far more than $99 to connect with ONE prospective client but I don't offer that for just anyone. The only thing you'll get for 1000 random "fans" is a number on your fan page to brag about.Sorry to hear that you didn't even get that.You don't buy "fans" and you won't build much of a business if your goal is "traffic".. Try for "engagement" or "people expressing interest in my subject" or "people I can help" .. those are some good metrics to work on :)

And one thing everyone needs to realize, is that targeted traffic and targeted list creation costs time/energy/money. Projects like that cost thousands of dollars & take weeks/months to put together. And even then, you still have a list of people who have only 1 touch w/ you, and it will take time to build a relationship w/ them, before you can except them to take any action (ie convert to $).

And the traffic sent has to be targetted as well. I could hire an offshore provider to just send hits to a movie and show a million views in a week, it doesn't do anyone any good

Agreed, the user needs to take action for it to be the start of a relationship as opposed to spamming/bots/etc. ... so there could be a program that promises to drive certain traffic to your facebook fan page or whatever, but if it guarantees a certain # of new fans that will happen automatically (especially at that price point), it's probably B.S. & is using fake accounts.

There is a difference though. Getting traffic to a site/movie/fanpage where a user has to initiate the action is one thing. When we make movies our gaurantee is just that, people will see it. Those who sign up for a newsletter after are organic and authentic. They only get to that sign-up page if they've enjoyed the movie. A place promising sign ups, for that cost and timeframe is not delivering real sign ups. Just like Twitter follower promise programs. They're mostly bots.

There's really a few different issues here -- one is that many of the "too good to be true" things are just that, total scams praying on people who want a quick solution to get fans/followers/friends/list etc. And in many cases they are total B.S., the list you get is not real humans = #fail But ... then there is the entire concept of building a list (or fans/followers/friends) quickly using some sort of system. And Scott, your viral videos do just that, build a list of email addresses quickly of people who are theoretically interested in that subject. (As the readers don't know, I had you do one of these for me years ago and got thousands of people on my list in just a day or two.) Let's assume these are real humans & real emails/facebook accounts/twitter accounts, etc. And, then let's assume they are a little bit targeted -- at least they liked the viral movie or use the right keywords or something.The downside of speed is that you don't build the relationship before you get the people on your list. So, you have a lot of work to do to build that relationship before you can sell anything to them (months, even years), and will likely lose 1/2 if not more in attrition b/c they were not a good match. So that needs to be calculated when inventing in a system to get list, how many of them will ever have a relationship with you, months, years down the road, and how much time/energy/money you will need to put into that list to develop that relationship.

Greetings,My perspective is the same as that of unmarketing's. What the heck were you thinking? The value of a follower is the trust they have for, correlated to the influence and value you bring to the party. Paying for anything is lame, irregardless of whether it works or not. Viralee is not a scam because "it didn't get you the followers" - it is a scam by virtue of catering to those who think paying for artificial followers will lead to success.I don't know much about you, but this type of "thinking/behavior" makes for a very poor first impression. My .02.

Heyo!What did you expect d00d? If you hired someone to actually go out and entice 1000 true fans, it wouldn't cost $100. Their work isn't based on anything but straight numbers. It's the same as paying for followers on Twitter. It doesn't justify ripping you off, but paying someone to mass add fans in a short period isn't the best move to begin with. It's a pretty cheap $99 business lesson I would say :)

Ori - I was just a near-victim, as well, of one of those website/sales marketing companies - "YOU too can make XYZ $$, with HARD work - NOT a get-rich-quick plan!" etc. I *BIT* - I KNEW better - and I'm sposed to be refunded - but people like that, and folks like Viralee - they give Internet Marketing a VERY BAD name, and make ev1 scared to dip their virtual toes into the water! You were most right to go after them, and to post this blog. I'll keep after the folks that took my "low down payment" as well - they will NOT see me go quietly~~ Thanks !